WISDOM AT WORK: : Older Women, Elderwomen, Grandmothers on the Move!
WISDOM AT WORK: : Older Women, Elderwomen, Grandmothers on the Move!
Ferdoushi Begum: “A UN Convention will be a pledge with the legal force to ensure the dignity and entity of all older people"
Welcome! This is ilana Landsberg-Lewis, your host for the Wisdom at Work podcast: Elderwomen, Older women and Grandmothers on the Move!
What follows is a special and exciting 10-part series... 'Age With Rights and Dignity' - 10 interviews in which we will hear from older and younger advocates from different corners of the world. These committed champions and advocates will share with us why they care about the rights of older persons, and what they are doing to help bring a new United Nations Convention on the rights of older persons into being - for you and me, no matter how old we are now!
Welcome. This is Ilana Landsberg-Lewis, your host for the Wisdom at Work podcast. Elder Women, older Women and Grandmothers on the Move. What follows is a special and exciting 10-part series. Have you ever thought about how human rights plays an essential and meaningful role in our older age? Well, you're in the right place. You're listening to Age with Rights and Dignity 10 interviews in which we will hear from older and younger advocates from different corners of the world. These committed champions and advocates will share with us why they care about the rights of older persons and what they are doing to help bring a new United Nations Convention on the Rights of Older Persons into being for you and for me, no matter how old we are.
Speaker 1:Now Join the movement and raise your voice. Go to the Age Noble Human Rights Day 2024 blog to find out more that is A-G-E-K-N-O-W-B-L-Ecom, and sign the global petition for the UN Convention on the Rights of Older Persons. I'm also excited to introduce you to two wonderful guest interviewers, younger women who are committed to these issues and will be joining me in this series to interview some of our esteemed guests Faith Young and Kira Gowenis. Thank you for joining us, enjoy this special initiative, and my thanks to Margaret Young, the founder of Age Noble for bringing this opportunity to us to hear from these important guests who promote the human rights and the dignity of older persons the world over. In this episode, I have the pleasure of introducing to you our guest interviewer, faith Young, interviewing Ferdushi Begum.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the podcast I have here with me Ferdushi Begum who has kindly?
Speaker 2:offered to share her story and insights. Ferdushi has been championing and serving older people in her country of Bangladesh for over 24 years. In her early career, fidushi was a photo librarian for the Dirk Photography Institute and a research associate at the Bangladesh Development Research Center and the Impact Monitoring Evaluation Cell of PROSHIKA. She is currently the Assistant General Manager at the Resource Integration Center, which is a national non-governmental organization that serves and advocates for older people in 55 districts covering more than 40,000 villages. Wow Pradushi is also active in contributing her experience and skills to other organizations that champion the human rights of older people and older women.
Speaker 2:Organizations that champion the human rights of older people and older women, such as the Forum for the Rights of the Elderly Bangladesh, an apex body of 30 organizations, the Women for Women Research and Study Group in Bangladesh, the One Billion Rising, a global movement against violence towards women, and the Global Alliance for the Rights of Older People with the Global Age with Rights campaign. Ferdushi's voice and passion are heard and seen in national and international spaces, including the United Nations Open-Ended Working Group on Aging. Her unwavering conviction in promoting and protecting the rights of older people is inspiring Ferdushi. Thank you so much for being here. It's so great for me to get to speak with you. I wanted to start, ferdushi, by asking you what is your motivation? Why do you do all the work that you do to fight for the rights of older persons?
Speaker 3:Because I think that I am working for myself, because already I am going to be older in our Bangladesh context. So I need to work in Bangladesh through a platform with the civil society organizations and other organizations who are working on older people issue. Therefore, I would like to motivate in Bangladesh for even convention.
Speaker 2:That makes a lot of sense and that's so inspiring to hear. And I've heard that you started off in economics and that was your area of study. So how did you kind of go from economics to now working in human rights and working with older persons?
Speaker 3:Because you know that economics main terms is demands and supply these are the two words is key for economics. So, in my work, when I see the demands of older people's microcredit, then I always try to more supply of microcredit, because you know that our community older people always pressure me please give more loan, more loan. So I think that this is a positive thing. Thus I work in social work about demands and supply of economics.
Speaker 2:It's interesting how all of these different areas and disciplines come together. Now I know in the recent report by the UN independent expert on the full enjoyment of human rights by older persons, she visited Bangladesh right and she discussed that social protection and the right to security is an urgent issue, so maybe could you share what this looks like for Bangladesh's older people.
Speaker 3:Bangladesh is undergoing a significant demographic shift Now 15 million people age 60 and above. By 2050, this number will have more than doubled to 36 million. Bangladesh has implemented a wide range of social security programs to protect and care for the older Bangladeshi. Yet a vast number of older Bangladeshi either remain outside of these programs or are still financially insecure, despite participation in the program. About 18% of older Bangladeshi are in a pension plan, with 8% in retired government employee pension and 10% in retired private sector employee pension. About 40 percent of older people receive old age allowance from the government. Vulnerable older Bangladeshi receive 60 taka 5 USD in monthly allowance to alleviate poverty and reduce their food, health and housing vulnerability.
Speaker 3:While this social protection effort is recognized, older Bangladeshis say the reality is that this amount is not adequate. I can imagine. Here is the story of Jahanara Begum, 79 years. Older woman of Piruspur district of Pirusput district expressed her views that, though the amount of money is very minimal and spending for medicine but fill dignity, the state gives attention among us, I realized and demands at least 2000 BDT taka, always in current situation of inflation. Another older people oldest recipient, abdur Rahman of Munchigan district said could not maintain basic needs through this small amount, really feel discomfort with this inadequate money which could not relieve me from my hardship. We need free and quality treatment from the government hospital.
Speaker 3:Finally, we say more than 40% Bangladeshis over 65 do not receive any kind of pension, according to the data Bangladesh Bureau of Statistics, bbs, and the Ministry of Finance. The Universal Pension Scheme was launched on 17 August 2023 and is designed to protect the social security of future older Bangladeshis. This scheme allows people aged between 18 and 50 to put aside part of their income and receive a monthly pension at the end of their payment period. This will benefit future older people, not those who are in this age group at present. The ability of the current police allowance program to reach the poorest and its adequate financial coverage limits its social protection effectiveness for two days older people. Just as we are looking for ways to protect the right to social security for future older Bangladeshis, we need to find ways to strengthen the protection of the right to social security for two days older Bangladeshis.
Speaker 2:That is so important and I'm curious then you mentioned those gaps for Bangladesh's older people in general. What about the social protection situation for older women specifically?
Speaker 3:Despite progress in women's empowerment, due to social stigma, social norms, Bangladeshi women tend to be highly vulnerable to poverty and social marginalization. According to the 2022 Household Income Expenditure Survey data, Bangladeshi women are less likely than men to participate in the labor force. The percentage is 42.5% versus 81.3%. They are also significantly more likely than men to be unemployed. This means Bangladeshi women are more likely than Bangladeshi men to be financially insecure going into their old age. So older Bangladeshi women can apply for the old age allowance scheme at age of 62, which is earlier than men at 65. There is also a monthly cash transfer scheme to widows and husbands deserted, destitute women to improve their social economic well-being. Yet the priority in receiving this scheme is given to the oldest of the widow or deserted wife. In Muslim marriages where a man can marry up to four wives, Recipients of other social protection schemes do not qualify to apply for this cash transfer. Without the needed social protection, older Bangladeshi women are at risk for medication, food and shelter.
Speaker 2:I suppose through your work with the Resource Integration Center you have witnessed a lot of those unfortunate stories, but you're also able to work in those situations.
Speaker 3:Yes, resource Integration Centre promotes the right to an adequate standard of living for older Bangladeshi women and all older people through three key focus. First focus RIC provides older women and men and oldest allowance beyond the government program. Our older people welfare program started in 2010 for the benefit of older people within RIC's own organization. Funding for this program comes from different sources. Some of it comes from RIC's microcredit program, donations from organizations and individuals and contributions from RIC staff. Second thing RIC is a pioneer in including older people in the mainstream of microcredit. So far, no other organization is working for this program. In Bangladesh, ric has provided microcredit to more than 9,000 older humans so far. More than 9,000 older humans so far. We run this program in 103 unions in 20 subjects of 10 districts.
Speaker 3:Two older people involved in micro-KT the story of Abdul Qadir Mulla. 65 years old, abdul Qadir Mulla worked in Saudi Arabia for 15 years as a tailor master. He spent more than 1.7 million for his daughter's wedding arrangement from his earning and at once identified his wife with liver cancer and spent more money for better treatment. But he could not survive his wife. After died of his wife, his life became very miserable and resourceless. In this circumstance, he managed a job and worked to others tailor shop as a cloth cutting master, but as an older person he could not continue his work. He failed to get any job for surviving, though he tried to search a job continuously. Lastly, he became more vulnerable and helpless. At once he informed from his neighbor about Rick's matriculated for older people and met with the concerned person of Rick and discussed his hardship. At first it was a surprise to him to hear that he was allowed to get 40,000 BGT loan from Rick. Abdul Qadir Mullah started again his job with his own shop and involved with Older People Association as an active member and repaying the loan regularly. Gradually he revived his life and feels very happy.
Speaker 3:Another story of how Mrs Kushnara Begum enjoying mental peace and lives with dignity in community through involving in microcredit. 75 years older widow. Mrs Kushnara Begum has no son, only one widow daughter. After died of her husband her life became very miserable and had no land for cultivation, no earning source to meet up their daily needs. Nobody took any responsibility of them In this situation lack of money. At last she leaves by begging.
Speaker 3:During corona she was facing a lot of sufferings and got into troubles. To run her livelihood smoothly she informed about special loan is providing from REIT towards the vulnerable older people in the community. She discussed with older people leaders about her hardship and decided to give support to her. The older people committee always make lists from the community and recommend who are eligible for microcredit as priority. They enlisted her name as suggestion of OP leaders.
Speaker 3:Kushnera Begum applied for loan, started T-Stall and making up daily needs through her daily income. At once she became a member under Older People Association and participates in regular monthly meeting. She expressed her happiness and thanked me for standing behind her enjoying mental peace and lives with dignity in community. Third is we provide programs that improve health, social engagement and knowledge of older people, such ICAMs, older People Association meetings and leadership training. These programs improve the social security of older women and help them regain their dignity and realize their other human rights, such as the right to work and the right to enjoy the high, sustainable standard of physical and mental health. They also promote and empower older Bangladeshi women to be contributing members of family and society and no longer be at the meanings of society.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sharing those stories. I especially liked that you shared the experience of Abdul and Kusnara. I think it shows how the potential for these types of microfinancing and other programs can help to get older people engaged and hopefully improve the gaps that they've been facing to human rights as well. So I was wondering was there any challenges at the beginning establishing this program? How did that go?
Speaker 3:Yes, it is very challenging because you know, no other MFI organization is not allowed to provide the microcredit for up to 50 years. So you know that after 60 years or 65 years older people they can do work involving the income generating activities. So why this group will be unaddressed under the finance financiated inbound. Some organizations in Bangladesh are very eager to provide the micro credit but they think that older people could not repay the money due to their health. This is the challenge. But we break the wall from our organization and we started our piloting program in 1991. We have started this microcredit for the older people and gradually we receive a good outcome from involvement of older people in microcredit. Therefore, I think we can do work with older people in microcredit, though it is challenging.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and I guess other NGOs have started to do this now as well. Then, once you were successful, ngos can do a lot and they can work with older people, but I'm wondering for Bangladesh in general, what kinds of policies are there for older persons? On the right to social security, you talked a bit about the old age security and how some people are eligible for pensions but some aren't. So what do you think is working well with these policies and what do you think continues to be a work in progress?
Speaker 3:There are numerous policies and acts for older people. We have a national policy for older people. It was developed based on the Madrid International Plan of Action on Aging Framework and with the input of non-government organizations like the Resource Integration Center. It is very comprehensive and covers all key dimensions of aging and development. I was proud to have been actively involved in my role at Resource Integration Center. We recommended some minimum standards for older Bangladeshi to realize their rights. For older Bangladeshi to realize their rights, for example, on social protection, we recommended to increase oldest allowance at least 2,000 BDT. Reserved seat in transport. Older people-friendly, inclusive health support care through universal health coverage.
Speaker 3:Movement soft loan for income-generating address Unfortunately, the implementation of the national policy for older persons has been limited since its adoption in 2013. For example, in 2015, the idea of a citizen's pension for people who are age 60 and above was raised in the National Social Security Strategy of the Planning Ministry. It also proposed the introduction of a National Social Insurance Scheme with contributions from the private sector to support older people. As I shared earlier, the Universal Pension Scheme that was launched on 13 August 2003 did not bring additional social coverage to older people today because of the age qualification cap of 50. Another example is the introduction of the 2013 Maintainance of Parent Act. In this act, the child or children have mandatory responsibilities to support their parents' livelihoods, medical treatments and other basic necessities. It is a punishable offense if these responsibilities are not carried out. While the intention is good, this law has been criticized from both social protection and human rights points of view.
Speaker 3:The need for better social protection measures for older people, especially those without sons and daughters, is urgent. How are older people without sons and daughters socially protected when they are unable to access the oldest security coverage or when the oldest security coverage does not adequately meet their day-to-day needs? How realistic is it to have sons and daughters who are already in poverty, to assume responsibilities outlined in the Act. This is why I, resource Integration Centre and other Bangladesh non-government organisations advocate for an even convention on the rights of older people. Such an even convention is an international human rights treaty that will provide human rights standards to ensure all older people worldwide enjoy human rights. The human rights standards will address all aspects of an older person's life, such as the right to social security or health that I mentioned earlier.
Speaker 3:While human rights standards exist in these two areas today, they don't specifically address the needs of older age. For example, the right to social security is lacking in mainly developing and low-income countries today for different socioeconomic reasons. Such human rights standards will ensure older people's protection and receive the support needed. In addition, an even convention is binding once ratified in a country. Their implementation progress will need to be reported to. Couldn't agree more. I'm wondering what do you?
Speaker 2:see as some of the obstacles that are in the way of having a UN convention take place so far.
Speaker 3:Actually every state are not interested for UN convention, because when the state will be signed, you know they're signed and when the UN convention will be ratified, every state will be. Then applies to do something for older people. But their views is that we're working for children. They are the future vision. We will work for the adult human. They are the future development. Why would we spend for the older people? They have no ability. But I think that older people are a very, very important part for development. There is no defaulter in our microcredit. It is a very, very positive result for our program.
Speaker 2:Yes, this shows the importance of these types of programs, and people might have thought that the microcredit programs wouldn't work and that there would be defaulting, but this is a great example of stereotypes not being true. You spoke about the importance of engaging older persons. So, while we are working towards a UN convention and thank you for sharing the importance of that UN convention what can we do to promote and protect the rights of older people?
Speaker 3:Our practice is to take a human rights-based approach. The human rights-based approach has five key principles. The first is participation, which means everyone is entitled to active participation in the decision-making process that affects the enjoyment of their human rights. In our microcredit program, older people have an active role and voice on how much they wish to borrow and the type of ventures they use the borrowed funds for. We may provide them advice based on successes and learnings from the past, but we do not make the decisions on behalf of the older people. We do not make the decisions on behalf of the older people.
Speaker 3:Second thing is accountability, which means our organization as duty bearers are held accountable. If we fall to fulfill our obligations towards the older persons, who are the rights holders, and that there are remedies in place, should remain, human rights be braced. Our microcredit programs are monitored by RIC's own staff and if there is a breach in service delivery, the older borrower getting facilities through RIC to overcome their crucial situation in their later life. The third is non-discrimination in their later life. The third is non-discrimination. Our microcredit program does not discriminate based on age, gender, religion, etc. Every older person is evaluated against the same criteria when they apply to the program. The fourth is empowerment, which refers to the need for livelihoods to understand their rights and participate in the development of policies that affect their lives. Our microcredit program, like other organizations, seeks the input of older people in Bangladesh in its development and delivery approach.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I guess for those themes of empowerment and non-discrimination and accountability are all things that can only be enhanced with a UN convention in place and kind of change the attitudes at all levels. You mentioned that you and other NGOs work together to kind of advocate for older people's rights and the UN convention, like we met at the Open-Ended Working Group. Could you maybe share what other kinds of activities you have done in the past?
Speaker 3:We focus on four types of activities. First is train older people so that they can claim their rights and raise their voices for their rights and the UN Convention. Ric organized consultations with community older people leaders on EVEN OEWG agenda under Garop campaign in Bangladesh in 2019. At first, oriented the RIC staffs and volunteers on EVEN open-ended working group and provided training on interviewing instrument, questionnaire and online entry of interviewed data. Rick organized consultations with the older people leaders of Older People Association. In fact, they are the grassroots level human rights defenders of older people. Human rights defenders of older people. The aim of the consultations was to get comments and opinions from representative groups of older people in Bangladesh on the agendas of UN Open and Working Group Asian Station and Meeting. Second, create public awareness and build momentum through the AIDS with Rights campaign and local coalitions. As a part of the Age with Rights campaign, ric mobilized the community-level older people of remote areas and RIC celebrated this Age with Rights global campaign at central and community level since 2022. Central and community level since 2022.
Speaker 3:There are 31 civil society organizations under Forum for the Rights of the Elderly Bangladesh platform. We are working together and keep bold steps for advocacy on older people issue. Representatives of these organizations join the human change signature campaign and multi-Stakeholder Meeting. More than 10 national newspapers, many local newspapers, online newspapers and seven national TV channels have covered the rally multi-stakeholder making event. Through these media coverage, more than 600 people have learned the UN convention process for older people human rights. The signature campaign was very effective in demonstrating the commitment and solidarity to document the public supports for the convention. Developed campaign material, leaflet, placard, face to banner with caption of AIDS with Rights, which are the message for demanding even convention on human rights for older people.
Speaker 3:Our government representatives to uphold the human rights of older people through policy law, apply a human rights-based approach in its work and support the even convention.
Speaker 3:In order to create awareness on UN Convention for Older People Human Rights, ric actively initiated to focus on it and deliver the message towards the mass people and government representatives. Mr Halal Uddin Bhuya, additional Director, department of Social Services, ministry of Social Welfare, said in a consultation the government of Bangladesh, civil society, individual private sector are all placing to improve the human rights situation of the older people. After the meeting, we will keep in touch with each other and closely watch older people's human rights violations and we will work together to prevent it. Those are all great accomplishments. Yes, at a regional and international level, to extending the global collective voice that advocates for human rights of older people and the UN Convention. As a member of GARO, attended the OEW GEA 14th session in 2024 and 12th session in 2022, presented oral statement. The statement reflected the interventions on the human rights of older people in Bangladesh and worldwide for the UN Convention and advocating to promote their rights and supporting championing the human rights standards from a UN Convention that will protect their rights till their last breath.
Speaker 2:Paul, thank you so much for sharing about your work, sharing about the motivation behind your work. If you'd like to please share any final thoughts that you have about the right to social security and the human rights of older persons, we should continue to raise our global voices for UN Convention of Older People's Human Rights.
Speaker 3:UN Convention will be placed with the legal force to ensure the dignity and integrity of all older people.
Speaker 2:That's great. Thank you so much, Pradushi. Thank you for those final thoughts.
Speaker 3:Really, I'm so happy to see you again. And hopefully later we will meet again, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.